Businesses and organizations spend all this money on the office, and they make people show up there all the time, yet that’s not where the work gets done. What’s that about? Why is that? Those are some of the questions about the workplace asked by Jason Fried. He is co-founder and president of 37signals, a Chicago-based company that builds web-based productivity tools. He also co-authored a book, along with David Heinemeier Hansson, called Rework, about new ways to conceptualize working and creating.
Workplace issues have been on my brain recently, with particular emphasis on the physical place, that fixed location, where many people show up ostensibly to perform the work, although Fried takes exception to that quaint notion. And as I wrote about in this post, there are transformative changes taking place in terms of how we work, where we work, and who is performing the work.
In the midst of this, I came across this TED Talk Fried gave about the lack of productivity at work. (Watch it at the bottom of this post.)
In the talk, he says companies find a space, fill it with furniture and computers and other tools, and then have a reasonable expectation that work will get done there.
“But we can’t seem to get much done at work,” sates Fried. “And when people want to get work done they don’t typically think of going to the office.”
Fried opines that when most of us think of work, three things come to mind:
1) A fixed location, a place or a room, such as the porch, the deck, the kitchen, the basement, the coffee shop, etc.
2) A moving object, such as a plane, train or car.
3) A time, such as early in the morning, or late at night, or on the weekends.
Fried says when he asks people the question about where they get work done they almost never respond with “the office.”
“People trade in their work day for a series of work moments. That’s what happens at the office. The office is like a Cuisinart. It shreds your day to bits, leaving you small, 15-minute increments to actually get your work done.“
“People trade in their work day for a series of work moments. That’s what happens at the office. The office is like a Cuisinart. It shreds your day to bits, leaving you small, 15-minute increments to actually get your work done.“
That leads to people feeling as if they are busy, but at the end of the work day, looking back and asking themselves, “What did I get done?”
Sleep and work have lots of parallels, says Fried. If either are constantly interrupted, we’re not going to get much sleep or complete a lot of work.
“How can we possibly expect people to do their job if they’re going to be constantly interrupted?” asks Fried. “People, especially creative types, need long, uninterrupted stretches of time to get things done.”
So what, or who, is the culprit? Fried says it’s the two M’s. Managers. Meetings.
“Meetings are just toxic, terrible, poisonous 
things,” says Fried pointedly. “The managers call the meeting so the employees can come together and it’s an incredibly disruptive thing to do to people. Stop doing what you’re doing, come to this meeting, and talk about the things you’re supposed to be doing.”
He says meetings also cost companies more than they know. For example, he says simply if 10 people are in a one-hour meeting that’s equivalent to a 10-hour meeting in terms of lost productivity.
So what does he suggest as an antidote? These three things:
1) No talk Thursdays. Or any other day. Pick a day, say once a week or once a month, where no one in the office can talk to one another.
2) Switch from active communication to passive communication. That means avoiding walking into each other’s offices or cubes and indiscriminately talking to co-workers, and instead emailing or IM’ing them, so they can be selective about the distraction.
3) Cancel your next meeting. You won’t miss it, Fried said. And the office will stay open. And the company will survive.
When you think of work does the office come to mind? Are there other places – and times – where and when you are more productive? Do you consider interruptions part of the job, or something that keeps you from actually doing your job? Do you have other solutions for how to avoid them? What about meetings? Are they the bane of your existence in the workplace or necessary?
{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }
Is Fried anti-social or has he just worked at a lot of lousy companies? I have heard many people that can work from home choose to go to the office because they enjoy the togetherness, the social aspect, and the momentum that builds from being around other productive people. When I first read Fried’s thoughts a couple years ago I will admit I thought he was onto something. It just so happens that we have a culture at our company where people actually like to be with one another, and they get a tremendous amount of work done…much of that work done through collaboration and sharing of responsibilities. There is truth to what he says, but it is not a one-size-fits-all solution.
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Is Jason Fried anti-social? Is that a rhetorical question Jason? Thanks for getting our comments started in good fashion on this post.
I didn’t see this presentation when it first came out, and am now just starting to think about it.
Let me share one thing and then I will address your comment specifically.
My wife works in marketing for a Fortune 50 company, and nearly every night opens her laptop to access an inbox with dozens and dozens of emails she didn’t get to during her work day because she was literally in meetings all day.
So there is a portion of Fried’s message that does resonate, with all of us I think.
What’s the age-old wisdom though? Everything in moderation? I don’t think you can take his comments literally – and/or liberally – and apply them across the board and say “meetings are toxic.”
So I agree with you. There is some truth to what he says, but his suggestions are not a one-size-fits-all solution. Thanks again for the comment.
Hi David,
I agree with you that he at the least brings out things to think about, consider, and possibly correct. I know I get home at not and often feel I didn’t get much done. But I know the truth is that I get a lot done in my interactions with my team, my leadership, my advice…and I learn a lot from my staff and our field employees and customers. So, I guess my question was sort of rhetorical, and sort of not. I do actually wonder why all the “interruptions and meetings and managers” bother him so deeply. Thanks for the post!
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I was with Jason completely until his three suggested points. When are people going to learn that the problem isn’t in the concept, it’s in YOU and how you execute it.
The problem with meetings isn’t in the concept, it’s in the execution. If they are unproductive wastes of time, blame yourself and figure out how to make them productive.
And as for getting rid of active communication, you’ve GOT to be kidding me. I worked for a publication with a staff of about 10 and 99% of our communication was passive and via email. You have no idea how poor the communication was. Everyone was on a different page, operating in separate silos, and it led to major internal issues. Again, the problem isn’t the concept of active communication or passive communication — both can be done extremely well — the problem is always in the execution.
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First of all I would like to say that we are now going to do all of our interviews via IM and text message. Why deal with all of these annoying people face to face when I can do it on my own time? Second, per his advice I have cancelled my next meeting which was our weekly team meeting. I don’t see any good reason why our employees should have an opportunity to share their successes and ask for advice on challenges when they should be working! I mean, if they need help, they should just IM someone…oh wait that might interrupt someone else.
OK I am being sarcastic. Jason has always gotten a rise out of me, and perhaps that is his goal (well people in general, not me individually per se).
What I find amusing is he talks about how employees should not be distracted because it takes a lot of time to get back on track mentally. Then he says that Facebook and Youtube use is fine and should not be discouraged or banned. OK? Then he says managers interrupt people, they don’t actually do work. Um?
So new rule at my company. No talk Thursdays. If you want to socialize get on Facebook and Youtube and do it there. Does the irony of this escape him? People are desperate to socialize, so much so that they get on these websites to feel like they are interacting, possibly because their nonworking manager Jason Fried won’t allow talking.
How many of the readers here have ever had difficulty communicating via IM or email? How many have actually caused disagreements or gotten involved in tense issues because of a misread or misinterpreted email? I know I have been in that situation many times. It is so much easier to meet face to face. And all of the distractions he speaks of…what are they and why are they so readily chalked up as annoyances rather than valuable and necessary interactions? Where did he used to work?
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Just awesome.
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I like IM for productivity. Email is horrible. It has a super long feedback loop, and the best time to talk about something is when it is top of mind. Plus, how many email arguments have you gotten into that wouldn’t have happened if you would have spoken with the person face to face? Probably most.
I would say improper use of email is a productivity suck up there with the two Ms. If you want to be productive, avoid using it.
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